Yeah, I've been hearing a lot about him.  It's nice to have someone take the place of McCain who lost credibility points with me when he sided with Jerry Falwell's ilk.

I've always leaned more toward the Dem side, too, even as a kid because I grew up during the Reagan years with the contra affair being broadcast everywhere on TV, so Republicans became synonymous with corruption in my mind.  With a few exceptions, they have yet to prove me wrong.

The Dems are disappointing me a lot here lately, too, though.  They've been losing me ever since they decided to Dean into their consistent joke.  They cared more about "trying to rise above and come out looking better" than the Repubs, when they know damn well that you cannot sit idly while the Repubs are mudslinging and (now) swiftboating.  Repubs will always use dirty tactics because, unfortunately, a lot of Americans are ignorant and buy into their shit.  Dems kind of forgot that you must fight fire with fire.

They kind of also forgot that you look like a hypocrite when you don't get rid of the corrupted clowns in your own party right away, as in the case of William Jefferson.  Though I must admit that the iGate scandal wasn't as bad as claiming Iraq had WMDs so you can organize a takeover to get back at Daddy's former enemy.

Eh, these days, I don't really know which way I lean.  I'm in the middle leaning toward the left, I guess.  And I tend to choose politicians based on merit (haha, if that's possible) rather than my political upbringing. 

  

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That should be *decided to make Dean".  Argh, didn't proofread thoroughly enough.  

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hmm thats interesting.

personally i don't care if they're republican or democrat, i just want a president thats not an idiot or a crook.

Ron Paul seems like he would be a nice president. hes not too smart, but i know hes not going to fuck up our country like bush did.

all i really want is for them to STFU about the war in Iraq, and for the price of gas to go back to a dollar!!

  

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I am personally not comfortable with Ron Paul as a candidate. I could not support or vote for a candidate with such strong ties to the Libertarian Party. He was there Presidential candidate in 1988, and continues to speak at Libertarian rallies to this day. I would be willing to bet that he favors laissez faire economic polices, and while he may never follow the Libertarian Party line to the letter, as president he would have an even more lax economic policy then Bush does. He wouldn't be as corrupt, but laissez faire economic policy breeds corruption in others.
  

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<i>all i really want is for them to STFU about the war in Iraq, and for the price of gas to go back to a dollar!!</i>

Amen to that. 

  

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Dammit, I need to remember to stop putting friggin' HTML in everything I do.  

Sorry, I'm a codemonkey.  It's habit.
 

  

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KagomeKagome: the Genie is out of the bottle – oil prices will not go down to pre-war prices. While an end to U.S. involvement in Iraq could stabilize prices other factors are involved. The 2002 Venezuelan strike by oil workers still effects price, production is still almost a million barrels below what it was in 2001. Also oil supplies in the U.S. and east Asia are currently at an all time low, demand and consumption is at an all time high in both regions. 

It is time to explore fully renewable fuel sources. I hope to see hydro cell and fully electric cars unveiled soon, and I hope to see expanded use of wind and solar power for electrical  needs. All of these technologies are available, cheap, and effective. Except for the electric car, they are all being implemented (if slowly). 

The high price of gas is one of the best things to happen in a long time. Finally there is an economic motivation to explore alternative fuels and to bring environmentalism to the forefront of mainstream politics. 

  

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Well, I'm not an idiot.  I've known this was going to happen for a while.  I meant that it would be nice if we could go back to those years where gas was $0.99 a gallon. 

Really, we have it made, compared to those across the seas who pay up to $5 a gallon for petrol.  Friends of mine find it quite amusing that we bitch about the high cost of gas.

  

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Oh, and agreed to the renewable fuel sources.  The last thing I'd read about the hydro cells is that they're being tested by the military?  

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It is true. Overseas gas prices are much higher then hear. I couldn't imagine paying five a gallon for gas. I miss the day when I could fill my tank for $20-25 dollars. Hopefully alternative fuels will be fully available sooner then later and the blowback from these fuel sources won't be as severe as from oil.

Sorry if I misunderstood post 5097. 

  

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DavidK, these things can't happen fast enough. With old oil money keeping development in alternate energy sources on the back bunner, we are better then 30 years behind where we should be.

It is not a matter of what ppl want, until enough ppl get sick of it to push the politcal buttons to make it happen. ie…..requiring more fuel economony in the cars we have and better hybrids…etc. (Car manufactures piece meal it to us, a little bit at a time….why ? )

I wanted a windmill myself. Do you know it isn't allowed here, outside of very small one for decoration. How's that for common sense. By the way I live in the boondocks with better then 120 acres between me and the next door neighbors (10 of which is mine). No one lives across the street or on either side of me, I am not near an air field or even near any kind of air traffic or any kind of line that a plane would take to a airport. It is just crazy. Local government thinks windmills are unattractive, ahh I think they should take a good look at the power plant, now that is downright ugly.

 It is very frustrating to me, since I live a few miles from the lake (Michigan) I wouldn't be interfering with someones "view" of the shoreline and I live in a prime windzone. What a waste of clean energy that could be used not only for myself but it would be a prime local for a wind farm.

Starks 

It certainly is different to hear the truth from a political candidate. It bears watching.

I was also raised Dem, I vote across party lines. It depends on the person, and what their records says about them. I hardly listen to what they say, you know the old saying "actions speak louder then words". Considering what we have had for president and what we have had run for president I am not sure that ppl remember what the truth is anymore.

It has almost always been a matter of telling ppl what a canidate thinks they want to hear, it isn't even a matter of what that person believes, making it hard to sort thru the garbage and double talk. The last race was a matter of what ppl choosing what they considered the lesser of two evils. That is a pretty sad statement for politics in general. 

  

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No worries, David.

When it does reach $5 (and it will happen…knowing our luck, it'll be as soon as school lets out) a gallon, just imagine the shock and rage that will come from the SUV drivers.  Mustn't forget the truck drivers either, though I feel sorrier for them because the changing gas prices mess is putting them out of commission.

Anyone ever heard the tale about a Canadian (this sounds like the setup for a joke, but it isn't) guy who invented a carburetor which could get almost 200 miles to the gallon?  Supposedly, some big oil company (Texaco, maybe?  this was way back in the day) bought the rights to it from him and then made any trace of it vanish.  Wonder how much truth there is to that.

  

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Interesting Sorrel. I don't even know the state of alternative energy in my area. Through both lack of information and lack of investigation, I am totally in the dark. I do know that a major local radio station switched to alternative power sources (windmills I believe) provided by the local energy monopoly. That must mean there are options here, but I don't know how many or at what cost.

In terms of transportation, the major energy and oil concerns have largely suppressed clean alternative fuels. Finished prototypes of electric cars were being road tested in the mid – 90's. While they were not cost effective at that time, they had the potential to be. But, electrics cars only financially benefit the auto industry, and big energy threatened to raise oil prices in retaliation. Hybrid and Bio fuel technologies are trickling through because big energy can still profit from them. Hydro cell is similar, Shell is the pioneer in this technology. I am not a fan of Hybrid cars as that don't solve the problem, it is just a baby step in a good direction. Bio fuel/ethenol is not a viable alternative. The blowback should be horrific; it emits Nitrous oxide, and effects agricultural out put. Simply put land that was used to grow corn for food would grow corn for fuel instead and food prices would go up. This would have a particularly drastic effect on the global south.   

  

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p.s. KagomeKagoem: Your post went up while I was typing mine, so I couldn't comment. But I believe every word of the story about Texeco suppressing that carburetor. I don't know if it could be proven, but it is the type of thing big energy has been doing for decades.
  

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Our gas prices are surprisingly low compared to other countries because Big Oil over here strikes deals with domestic and overseas companies to drill. We also pay little regard to the environment when we drill. Take a look at the plans to devastate the land that makes up the Alaskan oil reserve.  

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There are local ordinances that prohibit me from using my horse in town.

Though just north, less then 16 miles away, the amish are allowed to do so (probably because they have never stopped doing so). I would love to be able to just hitch up my horse and run to the store. If gas reaches $5 per gallon I am certainly going to see what I can do, at the very least write a letter to the local paper. It is true such things don't do much but it can catch attention, sometimes it is the right kind of attention. Of course this isn't a answer by a long shot, not even in the short run, but dang transportation costs are hitting my pocket book hard (as it is for most ppl). Making the price of everything raise as well. 

Europe pays a great deal more for oil, they produce very little themselfs, almost all of it is imported. But if you notice they all drive small cars that give them the most for the money they spend.

A lot of ppl drive suv's that do not need them, vans, trucks that are never used as trucks. I can see ppl buying such vehicles when they have a use for them, but many of them are nothing more then statis symbols. I have a niece that drives a cherokee jeep, she is not married and has no children. It is just to drive back and forth to college and looks cool, to me that is just crazy. An aunt that drives a van, her children are grown and gone. She and my uncle just like driving the van (they just bought it this last Jan.) as well as a large car. What in the world is wrong with a mid sized or a small car ? Not enough prestige. And I could go on and on.

  

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I wish the government would step in and help alleviate the problem. The Kyoto Pact needs to be ratified and our clean air and emission laws need to be brought in line with the rest of the world. We need to put an end to coal power plants or at least stop new ones from opening. And what is wrong with providing tax breaks to corporations that can successfully produce and market clean burning renewable fuel, cars, and power plants?
  

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Starks, sadly money does what it wants in regard to the enviroment. 

Have you ever been thru Gary Ind. ? I have a few times, it is like driving thru the twilight zone. The sky is always grey, covered with powerlines ontop of powerlines ontop of smog. It's like traveling to a whole different world, and a sad sick one at that. No trees, just ugly tracks and dirty streets. Reminds me of the old classic sci-fi movie Blade Runner. Everything on the bottom is trash and the higher up you are in society the farther up from the ground you live (or the farther from Gary you live). I am willing to bet the ppl that make the money that created Gary don't live anywhere near it.

  

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I agree DavidK, but you need a governing body in place that actually cares. Bush is old oil money he certainly isn't going to do anything that might upset his friends or cost them money.

The power plant, locally, is coal powered. A number of years ago they were allowed to raise the amount of pollution they admit into the air, (at night time like it makes a difference). That way less ppl "see" it. So at least locally we are going backwards. Emissions standards were lowered, the price for power certainly wasn't. This isn't voted on, it is the state that approves these standards. It isn't a matter of voting out ppl, many of the energy board are "appointed" positions. It sure is frustrating that such positions allow for the rape of enviromental health without having to be answerable for it.

  

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Manga and Politics, what a hell of a combination. J'aime bien.

Personally, I'm not going to get into the enviro debate since most of my political decisions are based a candidate's civil liberties stances (In which I'm liberal.) My only real opinion on the issue is that oil is obviously a cause of strife, pollution, and corruption in human society as a whole, ergo it's time we started working to make the alternatives affordable and efficient. Unfortunately, both major U.S. political parties are so focused on raising money and playing to the desires of their funding constituents that the government has stopped doing much actual governing of the people – unless you're a woman, in which case the government has the right to make all your decisions for you. Damn you, Roberts and Alito!

Come to think of it, the pursuit of new technology now could revitalize the economy – wasn't it the surge of industry required to build up the U.S. Army in WWII that significantly alleviated the aftereffects of the Depression? Likewise the Space Race led to huge advances that we've built upon for forty-odd years now, the advances made in both those eras pushed us out of a period of relative stagnation and built modern society.

Mayhap some kind of 'Green Race' is just what we need to start jumping forward again. I feel like we're on the verge of one, if we can just get some people into Washington that care more about doing their jobs than dollars and cents. Problem is, most of those people are called "Independents" and no one ever votes for them. I say the best way to improve a few things is to clean house and get some third- and fourth-party people into the Capitol, if you can take the power from those who have it then you create uncertainty. When politicians face uncertainty they start taking action, and that creates more room for change. It's a small dream, but it's mine, and I treasure it.

Ultimately, I think all of the blame rests on a complacent American public that can't be bothered to know the facts and make its own informed decisions about its elected leaders. (Or the businesses it's buying products from, but that's another story.) People trust politicians to do the right thing, liberal and conservative alike, the idiots. We created this Administration, we created this Congress, we created these governing parties, and now we don't want to monitor them and make sure they're actually working for us when it's our responsibility to our nation to do so.

  

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Ah, MB, I could love you for saying that.  Nicely put.  

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MB, well said.

As humans, we need to stop being so selfish and do things to better ourselves as society. 

  

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Well said MB. Unfortunately I am to cynical to believe anything of the sort is going to happen. Politics is big business now and candidates are the commodity. Everyone elected is a sale completed. Ideology is a selling point, and compromise is just an admission that the other brands product has merit. That is not to say nothing will get down. My belief is that we need a great man or woman of history, a president along the line of Theodore Roosevelt or Lincoln. We need someone to breathe new life into democracy and bring the economy and body politic into the 21st century. The big parties don't have the interest to move forward without a shove, and the third parties don't have the means. They are a place to look as historically their platforms have pushed the big parties to action, if one could make it's voice heard.

The idea of a "green race" is brilliant. Couldn't agree with you more in regards to WWII and the Space Race as the sparks behind the modern economy. Hopefully green technology will couple with the internet to push us into the next chapter of history.

  

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p.s. I would like to clarify one point. I do not prescribe to the "great man" theory of history. In no way do I believe that individuals have enough significance to single handled change the course of history. History is made by a confluence of necessity, coincidence, environment, and luck (both good and bad). I do believe that within a receptive political environment strong leadership can foster reform. 

Sorry for the double post, but I did not want my views and beliefs to be misunderstood. 

  

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People rarely vote thier conscious, they vote thier wallet. 

Though I think giving tax breaks for environmental  improvements within industry is a great start, it certainly isn't going to happen overnight. Electric cars were used in the late 1800's. Some of these classics
still run today, you don't see many modern cars that could compete with
that. The tech to make "green" cars has been around for a long time.

The building industry produces a lot of products that are energy efficient and earth friendly but it is rare to see a home with them it is more of a novelity then a rule.   Imagine each home fitted with a solar panel and an electric car…..I could see where such a thing would give oil company presidents nightmares. I have seen shows on building materials that would allow a business to produce most of it's own electric using a window treatment that looks a great deal like a tinted window. It is there, why isn't it being used more ? Cost, and it is just starting to become "popular" to be less wasteful.

The effort to make government accountable is a fight against special interest, esp when these interest pay for a canidates campaign…it's a battle that many ppl just give up on. There are so many ppl with the attitude that don't want to get involved, don't want to vote, don't want to pay a little extra for a product produced in a environmentally friendly way (after the intial retrofit many of these cost level out and become competitive). As my father aways says, and I am sure many of you have heard it or something like it, "If you don't vote then you don't have the right to complain".

  

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i agree with rep. ron paul, thats what i thought  a couple years after 9-11 happened (i was only 11 when the attack happened) that the reason we were attacked is because our past involvment in the middle east which pissed asoma binladin off. but the attack was by terrorist not by the government by iraq itself. asama binladin was behind the attack, not the dictator sadom hosain. (however he was behind other attackes). personally i am compleatly 100% in all cases agents war. i am extreamly anti war. for one civilians get hurt and kill who didn't do anything wrong and i think the damage of one civilian on either side(s) is going way to far. i also dont think the american peoples life is worth anymore or less than someone in a country whoes government we are at war with. we often have conflicts withthe government of a nation, never should we have conflicts with the people themselves. i do agrree totally and respect ron paul soooooooooo much for his comment on negotiation. i agree that sooooooooo much can be acomplished (actually just as much mabey even more i believe) with word and negotation not by blood shed. if we could make treaties and honor them and if we could help other nation that are at war make treaties and if we all stayed true to our word and have nation agree with them and if one has a concern or a disagreement than they talk it over and compile a new treaty that they both agree on. this is a great countrey and as a world super power and one of the most powerful nation in the world i think we should set an example of piece and not get in any other conflicts with other nations. thing can be accomplished through words, like for example with the palastinian- israilian conflict if the palestinians agreed to draw back their border (to where they claim they want to be but at this point wont because they need the self defence) and they would have their land and allow the palistinians to have theirs, and use the city of isreal and make it a park owned by two nations where everyone is alowed to visit and worship how they feel and illigalize vandalism form both countries and respect each other and not fight that would be a great compromise. (and would put an end to the blood shed). the u.s. could of at that point offered to help them to put up a treaty but not get involved with one side and give them money with a battle which is none of their business. personally i find it funny that the palistinians and the isrealites cant all get allong espechially scince muslems, christian, and jews all worship the same god. and the word muslem doues not mean terrorist.

i would also be interested in ron's demestic or sochil views like abortion, stemcell, and uthinization/ attemped suicide.

  

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Sorrel, I love how there is a movement nowadays to "go green". The general public is for the most part ignoring the warnings of global warming because they don't see any need to change their ways until it's too late.  

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It's funny though; in the European Union, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and (I think) Japan environmentalism isn't a divisive issue. There it is a political fact of life supported by both liberals and conservatives. I don't know as those nations have taken all of the steps needed, but at least they have started down that path. I don't know why we are so far behind, nor do I know why it is even a controversial topic. But in the end our environmental policy has more in common with China, India, and Russia then with our allies. I always thought that was strange and a little tragic.
  

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What I can't understand is why people are so averse to calling global warming by its proper name… Are we that stuck up as Americans to blindly proclaim that our problems couldn't possibly stem from overconsumption of fossil fuels?  

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Blame capitalism for the fact that no conservative (and a few in the middle) here will ever embrace environmental policies because "being green" isn't profitable when you've got the country's biggest polluters in your back pocket.
  

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Well said KagomeKagome!  

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 I really hope this is the first and last time when this blog talks about politics, at least until Inuyasha manga is complete.

However if you want to expand your point of view I'd recommend you to watch these documentaries at ALL COST (If you can't find some of them in your local video store, use your favorite p2p protocol

"The Power of Nightmares"
This is BBC documentary in 3 parts (1 hour each). It may be boring at some places but goes in details through the whole history of taliban and neo-conservatives, showing really disturbing and sometimes mind opening things. Must watch.

"The Corporation"
That's rather old documentary, but it clearly shows what's fundamentally wrong in the USA capitalist system. Did you know that a corporation have legal status of a living person?

"Who Killed the Electric Car"
Real working, ass-kicking electric car. You won't believe it. And even the people who created it were not allowed to keep one.
BTW hydrogen powered vessels are vaporware. You'll see why.
As side note, not long ago there was a news about car working on compressed air and there are working prototypes. But you'd probably see them in Mexico first

"WMD: Weapons of Mass Deception"
This documentary explores the media coverage of the second Iraq War and manages to
reveal great secret right at the end. I'm sure you won't believe it. The movies is rather way too balanced  and it may be boring for you, but for me this was the first time I could see the war in the way USA people did.

"Hacking Democracy"
HBO documentary. Have you ever wanted to change the outcome of election? You may find that using MS Office is all you need to know. No kidding.
Maybe you'd find this BBC story interesting too … (you'd better watch it, the transcript, is rather confusing).

Now, just a few words from me.
I'm living in post-communist country. We have learned the hard way that democracy is much more than freedom to speak and freedom to vote. If you don't have all the check and regulations working, you can still have totalitarian society. And we still DO.
You can talk, but no major media will report it. You can vote, but all the politician are the same (crap). It already happened few times, newcomer politics are getting high number of votes, only to fail expectations and get miserable support on next elections.

The only thing that changed is that instead of comunist the country is ruled by criminals and corrupt politics who protect them.

  

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Well, I don't have a problem with us talking about politics.  After all, it must get boring for Starks to only talk about Inuyasha with us.  I do realize, however, that political talk isn't everyone's cup of tea.

Really, Snow, there aren't many differences between the US and your country.  Those of us who paid attention in Government class realize that our country is not a "true" democracy.  The only thing resembling democracy is our voting system, and even that is screwed.  Thanks to the electoral college — a thing of the past that we don't even need anymore now that this country has expanded to its limit — even if we vote for someone (say, Al Gore), and he wins the popular vote, he still won't win if he can't nab the electoral college.  Why?  Why doesn't the popular vote matter?  Well, I don't know.  Ask our Supreme Court.  Bush became president.

Our country is really a capitalistic, socialist republic.  There aren't many differences between us and a country like Russia.  People disappear in the middle of the night?  Check.  Masses programed to believe that the usurption of their rights is in accordance with the Constitution and "homeland security"?  Check.  Mainstream Media only reports what they think most people want to hear instead of the truth of the matter?  Check.  The list goes on and on.  The only difference is that Putin (is he still there?  wasn't there an election recently?) is educated and cunning.  Bush has everyone around him doing his job for him.  Honestly, if the man didn't come from money, the only job he could get is something along the lines of "Do you want fries with that?"

  

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First things first:  I feel strongly that we need a leader who values the life of innocents.  If we can't find one of those guys then we need a man who protects democracy and human life indirectly.  George Bush may be in that second category but the results are incontrovertable.  The quality of life of the peoples of Afghanistan and Iraq can be better now that there are no dictators ruling with an iron fist from the shadows.  I know this might seem cliche by now but you can't break an omelette without cracking a few eggs.  I believe that what Bush did in his first term in office was right.  His motives are convoluted but the effects can be seen quite clearly. 

    I don't ever want to hear about oppresion in some corner of the world where no one would man up and step in.  If we don't take a strong stance on some important issues then it leaves us open and weak.  I think that America made a big difference in these two countries(Afghanistan and Iraq).  Now that we did our part I truly believe our purpose has been fulfilled.  Therefore I do not see any further reason to be grounded in these countries in any large part.  We must at least stabilize the aftermath of what we started.  I agree that we should eventually pull out of Iraq but the time is not right just yet…there's still much to be done and I think it would be weak of us to pull out all of our resources and men in Iraq at once.  I agree with the plan to take out portions at a time in Iraq;  A slow withdrawal.

     Throughout history a candidate with a small backing always takes the role of underdog and there purpose is usually only to tip the scales between one of the two main aprty candidates.  If people vote Ron Paul then it only helps the democrats because it takes away from the votes that could have gone to the popular rebublican candidate.  It's always a mess when an independant party or strong secondary candidate makes a big impact.

   I know it might seem like I'm beating a dead horse over here but…..I really want to see Inuyasha run for president.  His stance on so many issues coincide with my beliefs.  He doesn't believe in the use of fossil fuels; he would just rather run around.  He protects innocent humans without question.  He does not believe in the use of nuclear weapons; he would rather just settle things man to man.  If we got a candidate that was even half as hardcore as Inuyasha then he has my vote…IF Inuyasha doesn't run. 

Inuyasha for president baby!

  

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The only problem is that, as history has shown, every time you remove a dictator/totalitarian, there are many more like him ready to take his place.  Look at Iraq.  It's culturally/religiously diverse, and they all hate each other and refuse to get along.  Big difference from here in the US where even if we hate someone, we have to get along to some degree or there are consequences (usually, let's hope).  This is why Iraq is in a state of civil war.  All of these sects want control, and they don't care what they have to do to get it.  Bush, his staff, the military — whomever — went into Iraq thinking that this would be easy and didn't account for something like this happening, which is pretty poor planning, really.

Perhaps someone in Washington should have spent more time playing Civilization instead of Risk.
 

  

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Starks: Tank you for expanding your blog to something other then Inuyasha. While I love discussing current chapters, manga is a small world (I love it anyway) and it is fun to discuss other topics.

That said here is a link to two books that will change everyones outlook towards politics, culture, and leisure. Both are available free and in full. If you do read you will see that actually buying them would circumvent what the authors are talking about.

The first to read is The Revolution of Everyday Life by Raoul Vaneigem from1967

The second is Society of the Spectacle by Guy Debord also from 1967.

Both were colleagues, founding the Situationist Internationale, and there writings inspired both the French near revolution of 1968 and the first wave of British punk (1976-1978 version).

http://www.nothingness.org

click on library

Scroll down to Situationist International Text Library and click on complete text, you will see links to both books.

These are free eVersions of the books. If you do not like what they have to say, stop reading, you have not lost any money or have any reason to keep going. If you have an open mind they are two of the most innovative political texts of the twentieth century.
 

  

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Let me rephrase that:  the whole lot of them don't hate each other; just a portion of each individual sect despises each other.  

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Have to get a stable environment where people don't have to fear about the livelihood. As long as that gets done then we are in good shape. As far as the civil war going on in Iraq…can't make really solve everyone's issues all at once, it's gonna take diplomacy and time to assuage everyone's beef. The tribes in Iraq are all basically crazy so it's just a matter of what crazy guy to elect over there. I am not saying that this will be easy but the fact remains that it must be done.  

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FEYD: I can't disagree with you in certain regards. Saddam Hussein was a horrible, cruel monster and no one is shedding tears for him. Unfortunately the Bush administration's plan for invasion and occupation was so severely flawed that U.S. failure was rendered inevitable.

1. Neo-Conservative theory was just wrong. While the Iraqi people were overjoyed that Hussein was deposed, they were not going to welcome U.S. troops as saviors, nor would they tolerate a long occupation. This was plain to see even to a diplomacy laymen.

2. Iraq would not become an oasis of Democracy and trigger a freedom domino effect in the middle east. In 5000 years of recorded history, this region has no exposure to freedom or democracy and has been subject to near constant foreign invasion. Democracy never takes the first time around given those conditions. Post revolution France is a good example of that.

 3. The Bush administration underestimated ethnic/religious rivalries. Iraq has been ruled by the Sunni minority since the Ottomans conquered the region in the 1500's. Since independence in the 1940's, a series of military dictators (all Sunni's) have kept these rivalries somewhat contained through force. Without a totalitarian regime in place, all bets were off.

4. The Bush administration has shown that it has no stomach for nation building. They do not have the interest in establishing a strong central government capable of uniting or governing Iraq or Afghanistan.

I am glad to see a post that has a point of view different then mine FEYD! It is more interesting to debate someone with a different point of view then to agree and validate someone with the same beliefs as myself. I was glad to see your post, and hope to see more. As long as things stay friendly I welcome different points of view and belifes!

  

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I'm not arguing that.  I guess it's just the cynic in me coming out.  The Middle East has always been in turmoil, and I can't believe that there will be a day when it sees some sort of peace.

Unless Saudi Arabia deems it so.
 

  

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Agree KagomeKagome. Maybe it's a cruel trick of geography. Even before oil it was a global crossroads. Weather Roman, Persian, or Ottoman it was essential to control for the trade routes alone. At least the small states are headed in good direction. Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Jordan, and the UAE are all opening there political systems, encouraging business and banking, and expanding personal freedoms. There might be hope after all!
  

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KagomeKagome,

I can assure you that we who lived under communist propaganda have
never believed in it.  It's like having to watch same advertisements
for 10 years, while using the actual crappy product. We have also
become quite good at identifying propaganda. For example, there was
coup d'etat in Russia that tried to remove Gorbachov and restore the
socialist government. The media was under total control and yet people
understood what's going on and rebelled. In a documentary it was said
that the total media obedience was that actually doomed the said
"Пунч". BTW I'm not Russian.

We also have the habit of blaming the government for everything that is
wrong, this habit is created by generations of badly taken decisions
from the top…  And yet we always expect somebody else to fix our
problems…

Actually people don't object on Putin action because he had proved that
what he cares is Russia. He had managed to put biggest criminals and
corporations under control and to boost the economic. People live well
and this is what matters. People also know that he is at the end of his final second mandate, so they just have to wait for a while if they want
things changed. I wish we had politician like Putin here too.

On another note, I object on the way you use the word "socialist". The
root of the word is "social" and It basically means that the government
should take care of the people who can't do it on their own. For
example French governments are usually titled socialist. I use the word
communism, instead.

Communism is the name of next social system, but as everything that
haven't happened yet, nobody knows how it should work. So (I think that
was Marks, the one who found out the gradation of social systems) they
estimate how thing change in social systems and predict how it should
look like. Some revolutionaries want to live in it now so they make up
their own theories (e.g. Engels, Lenin). But they still don't know how
it should work. So they use the socialism as intermediate step, and of
course they stuck there. That's why most of these countries had
"Socialist" in their name. They are trying to make government take care
for everything and everybody. The result is that in reality they were
all dictatorships and had much more in common with fascism than any
other ideology.

The idea that communism could be artificially and forcibly created had
failed miserably so the word is now empowered with the meaning of
failure and is synonym of dictatorship. When the time comes, there will
be new social system that is much better than capitalism just like
capitalism is better than feudalism. But it probably won't be named
communism.
 

  

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Because of the Nile, Saudi Arabia has been a cross roads of wealth and influence thoughout time.

That statis remains to this day, it is a cultural/financial center for much of the middle east and greatly influences policies in that region. Very much like the US influence it's own allies. Sometimes in a friendly manner sometimes with covert actions. 

One of the biggest problems I have with Bush in invading Iraq, it sent a bad presidence. We as a nation, in our short history, had never waged war against another country without being attacked first. Now we have.

Iraq is not full of children, they no more want us to "rescue" them then we would want to be "rescued" by them. Sadam was evil, no doubt about that. However he is a saint compared to ppl like Poi Pot, Lenin, Stalin, and a host of others.

History shows changes to a governing power need to come within a country in order to be effective. It is thier choice to live the way they do, just as it is our choice to live the way we do. Granted you may not have a direct influence on your government but you do have an influence on those around you.

We do have a great deal in the US to be thankful for. Our predessors left us with a way to change what we do not agree with without resorting to bloodshed. Part of which is the exchange of ideas, including this blog discussion. It is a way to air your points of view and get feed back in different parts of the country (world) without all the expense of traveling.

  

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Feyd: I believe the points of view held by the Iraqis and Afghanis about their quality of life differ quite a bit from yours. According to on-the-ground investigative reports and first-hand accounts from those I've spoken with who have been in Iraq as armed service members, the Iraqis are grateful for being liberated, but they miss Saddam for the sole reason that they had a stable society under him.

The Afghanis feel forgotten, their country exists only in Kabul, and even there the government is tenuous at best. Outside the city limits Afghanistan is slowly being reclaimed by the Taliban, and it has no effective army to protect itself. The forces we devoted to freeing Afghanistan after Sept. 11th (Back when we were actually chasing the guy who bombed us.) have been diverted to Iraq. Thus, the bad guy got away, and the cancer is still growing.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have gone to war in either case. (Although Afghanistan was certainly more justifiable than Iraq. Iraq was based on Administration lies – If they'd just said "Hey, let's go take out a dictator because he's an asshole", then maybe I'd have been cool with it.) It's just that if we had focused on one country and then the other, then maybe we'd have been able to build two relatively stable countries. As it is, Bush and his cronies chose to leave one job unfinished in order to rush into another war. Our armed forces cannot support themselves in two separate theaters, the strain has forced cost-cutting that leaves them without body armor, without armor for their vehicles, and with substandard field medical support equipment. The government's ill-planning has left two nations in chaos and has endangered the lives of noble young men and women to whom we owe better than hand-me-down Kevlar body armor.

  

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Toppling the Taliban and breaking up al Queda were the first priority after 9/11. Our troops should have switched to a peace keeping role so that the new government could develop. Special forces and intelligence operatives could then search for Bin Laden. Step two should have been to restart negotiations between the Palestinians and Israeli's and not stop until a Palestinian state was established (or a framework was in place for one). Unfortunately our president is an evangelical Christian, and they believe that Israel needs to control the entire Solomonic territory for the rapture to come and the Kingdom of God to be established. Until there is a peace treaty in place creating a Palestinian state, there will not be peace in the middle east.
  

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I agree that a Palestinian state is key to improving the situation in the Mid-East, but I don't think it's necessarily the key to peace in the region. Iraq alone has about twenty different tribal groups, each of them with their own political and religious agendas, most of which have very little to do with Israel. Extrapolate that to every country in the region and you've got a couple hundred groups jostling for a voice. The existing violence runs so deep, and the reasons for it are so different from tribe to tribe and ideology to ideology, that the only way for it to ever really end is for the residents of the Middle East to finally say "Enough!". Unfortunately, even if they do get fed up with it they're bound to feel powerless, because the social structure can be so stringently tribal that any dissent can mean alienation from one's family, or worse, retaliation.

Call me a pessimist, but I don't think it's a problem that outsiders can fix. It needs to come from within – but I'm not sure there's room on the inside for that change to happen. All I know is, society has survived through intense violence and oppression before, and doubtless we'll muddle our way through this, too, once the nuclear fallout clears.

This week has been a fun discussion, but next week I vote we talk about puppies and fluffy kittens. And ice cream, definitely ice cream.

  

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MB: A solution to the troubles in Israel will not solve the problems of the region. Politicians in the middle east use the Israeli's as we used the communists and are now using the terrorists, as a justification for policy. Internal repression is justified to prevent Israeli "terrorism" in the same way the Bush administration has used Al Queda to justify wire taps and the patriot act. Syria uses Israel as an excuse to occupy the Bakka Valley of Lebonan. Iran and Syria use the conflict as an excuse to arm Hezzbellah and other militant groups. If a Palestinian state is created, continued aggression would require new explanations and new justifications, forcing regimes to explain themselves both to the world and to their own people.

Remember, Iraq is not a natural state. Prior to British rule the entire Tigris and Euphrates valleys had never been unified, existing as either separate states, or separate provinces under foreign rule. The other three big states are largely homogeneous, minorities are largely foreign workers. In these countries ethnic strife is not as large an issue as in Iraq, not large enough to lead to a civil war. Iran has localized ethnic strife, but not to the same degree.

  

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Hey MB, I am getting a new puppy this next week. It is for my younger son's birthday. Some friends of my older son stopped by this last week with a puppy, from a friend of thier's, and told me that there is still a male left of the litter. Cute fuzzy adorable mutt. Guessing by it rough coat, it is some sort of husky crosss. The one they had was multiple colors but the remaining male is blonde in color (I haven't seen it yet). It was just too cute to pass up. They live a considerable distance from me so they are going to hold it for me until I get up that way. I currently have a chocolate lab. 

  

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David, either way, the world is still f'ed up. Just today, our esteemed president used Osama bin-Laden's plans to build an Al Qaeda base in Iraq in 2005 as an after-fact-justification for a 2003 invasion of our country.  

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Starks: The world's always going to be f'ed up. There is no utopia waiting for us. There will always be bad guys and suffering. The rest of us need to take positive steps and deal with things in the most positive and productive way. As we all can agree, the Bush regime has dealt with the war on terror through a mix of cold war politics and cronyism. The administration has not gotten their head around the fact that is a new day and age, and that the war on terrorism is a social war and will not be one on the battle field. Israeli/Arab relations and the deterioration of the economy in Saudi Arabia and Egypt are the issues that need the most attention, and not just from the U.S. but from within the moslem world itself. Nobody can heal all the wounds of the world, but the problems in the middle east don't need to last forever. Hopefully the next administration can recognize this and do more then withdraw the troops from Iraq.
  

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Hey Starks, got a spoiler for us?

This week's spoilers and releases are reeeaaaallly slow. (  

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Hitsu, spoilers haven't been posted on 2ch.net lately.  

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Snow:  I'm sorry if I implied you're from Russia; I was actually comparing the US to Russia.

Eh, Putin and Bush may be alike in one way.  Bush may actually care about this country (a smidgen, granted), but since he caters to the whim of his powerful friends/staff, that nixes any sort of good feelings he may have.

As for propaganda, as my husband and his uncle have put it many times before:  at least when they're screwing you in Russia, they let you know about it beforehand.  Here in the US, you just get handed lube and get told to hang on for the ride.

  

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