I am a member of a group that is VERY politically active. I myself am a FAR left liberal. I am not partisan at all.
I like Ron Paul.  

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I'm all for low taxes, personal responsibility, and following the Constitution, but I won't vote for a guy who sticks his head in the sand when it comes to the very real threat of Islamic radicalism.  

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How is that a threat to us? Islamic radicalism? Yeah, but aren't they entitled to their own civil war? Who the hell are WE to jump in where we do not belong? This isn't even a war over that shit. It is a war for oil. If this country spent even a fraction of the amount the war is costing on finding a viable alternative fuel source instead then our dependence on oil would be a thing of the past. You call it "Radicalism", but isn't it just their religion? Most wars fought over religion are doomed from the beginning. Then again, most wars are fought over religious beliefs or power. Or both. To each his own. Leave that country to their own self-destruction. We can go help the winners of their inner war when it is over. That sounds heartless, but didn't we, as a country, even have our own very bloody and very destructive (lives, property, etc) civil war? Who are we to deny the birth of a new country's government through their own means?  

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SesshoumaruAddict,

Spoken like a true patriot!

  

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SesshomaruAddict, I think you misunderstood what Beans said. He was probably referring to Islamic Terrorist's and the threat they impose on our nation. Not anything else. He simply meant when Terrorism in the middle east or elsewhere becomes a threat to our countries safety, the President shouldn't hesitate to take action.

It's either you misunderstood him or just took the chance to spew out a noble liberal speech… Either way, your comment had terrible points and is horribly constructed. But everyone is free to 'opinions', no matter how ignorant or ludicrous they may be.

By the way, Islamic Radicalism "is" a threat to us. Lets face it, they hate America and want to kill us and our democracy. I'm fairly certain you remember 9/11 and the Islamic terrorists that flew hijacked planes into buildings and killed nearly 3000 civilians on our soil. Yeah, you do. So don't say Islamic Radicalism isn't a threat.  

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Islamic Radicalism isnt a threat. Whats to worry when half a country belives there serving god by killing infidels. I say we leave them alone who cares who wins.

oh ya and if they get there hands on nukes whats to worry.

I love cookies, peaches, and all things sweet. that what that vidoe just told me, come on people open your eyes.  

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I apologize if I may have sounded like an asshole, I tend to overdo things a bit when it comes to politics. So don't take what I say personal or anything, I actually really am a nice person.  

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I have not forgotten 9-11. I agree that the terrorist threat here in the U.S. needs to be taken seriously. However, we as a country have NO BUSINESS in other countries trying to police them and set up our own version of "government" when we ourselves cannot get it together.
And you don't sound like an asshole, just a little less informed on the true issues of this war. I have been doing a lot of my own research and what I see terrifies me. We are losing our civil liberties slowly but surely. In fact, it is so slowly that most don't see it happening. When you throw a frog in boiling water it jumps out. If you put a frog in cold water and boil it slowly it will stay in until it boils to death. That is what is happening to us. We are losing our rights and privileges slowly so that one day we will wake up and Dubya will have the entire nation on its knees. So the history books will read "and thus ended the reign of the United States as the biggest super power in the world".
JMO and thanks for the honest debate instead of flaming and mud-throwing that so often overtakes a political discussion.  

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my view is that world government is all the same entity, its purpose is to set the people up against one another so we systematically destroy ourselves. the media ploy of terrorism works to frighten us into submission and to accept tyranny as the greatest form of protection. once the population is sedated and all dissedents have been dealt with, we can lead lives of overt slavery, instead of the covert slavery society now subjects us to.

anyone else feeling a little trapped in this reality lately?

btw, i like what ron paul stands for, but you must pardon my skepticism on the idea that this system can change from the inside. i'm not entirely certain that he is genuine, because politicians are notorious for saying one thing and doing another, and i think that this society itself is what is in fact enslaving us. the only way to escape would be to cut the head off that monster entirely.  

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Sesaddict, pardon what I'm about to say: but to me, you just sound like a parrot of the mainstream media. War for oil. Dubya's rotting away our civil liberties, we have no business over there, blah blah. You have no right to say Soda is "uninformed".

For one– war for oil? God, that is the most overused and absolutely idiotic statement. Just take a look at the world around you for a moment and think. If this was a war for oil– there would have been no profit in going into Iraq at all.

Also, yes our civil liberties are rotting away, and I think Bush is a hypocrite, but he's not the reason our rights are leaving us. It's because of liberal, elitest congressmen who think they know how to run our lives better than we do. They set up their government programs and slowly get us to rely on government handouts. When did people begin to think they deserved healthcare, housing, and provission from the government? Our country was formed by people who did everything to make sure they took care of themselves. They didn't want a government running their lives; but you know people today. Selfishness has done a lot to ruin our principles.

Also, we do have business over there as Iraq has/had proven to use their country as a base for terrorists. They supplied them, protected them, harbored them. The president had said long before that anyone who harbored terrorists would be tarketed– and that's what happened. Also, maybe you should consider that practically all of the democrats in senate voted that we should be over there. So acting like this is "bush's war" is bullshit. Every one of those senators is equally responsible. Btw, you won't hear it in the media because they prefer showing the death tolls, but do you know that we are actually making progress? The surge is working; the people are supporting themselves now. The Sunni and the Shiites are working together. The generals have said that they believe they've crushed al qaeda and dealt a heavy blow on their leadership. Infact, some believe that they've almost won. So get your facts straight and quit getting all your information from moveon.org.

As for Ron Paul. I like the guy and do believe he is honest. He has proven through his voting record to mean what he says… However, I just can't vote a guy in office who thinks the CIA and FBI should be disbanded and that all drugs should be legalized.. Sorry. He's got good points but he's a little bit crazy I think.  

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Sesshomaruaddict,

I've done a ton of research on Ron Paul. As you consider yourself a liberal, I consider myself a libertarian on "most" facets. I like Ron Paul on a lot of issues. He is against abortion, for gun rights, an advocate of legalizing marijuana (I'm only for marijuana not any hard core drugs. I don't smoke, I just want to tax it and relieve law enforcement), against high taxes, against illegal immigration, and best of all for state level decision making. All of these I agree with.

But his stance on the war I can't get behind. It scares me. Any politician who isn't willing to protect the country with force when necessary scares me. It is almost a sad thing though. Almost all of Ron Paul's political stances I agree with. Even far more than any of the other presidential candidates. Butt he is against the one I think is the most important.

Now Sesshomaruaddict I have to ask you this. As a liberal I can't understand how you can support a candidate who is against so many of the ideals of liberalism. If his stance on the Iraq War and civil liberties are big reasons for you, as they are for me, then I am glad that you support him and I hope he gets nominated as the Republican candidate. I think he could bring a lot of liberals out of crazyville a tad bit.

As of now the top four candidates on the Republican side are heavily flawed. In fact all of them are. I find myself reaching to get behind any of them. The Democrats are in a much better situation to all get behind Clinton (who is at nearly 50% in most polls). The right is very fractured.

Ron Paul needs a lot more work if he wants to get ahead, but I'd vote for him if he was the nominee. At the moment, though, I find myself straying towards Huckabee.  

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Ron Paul is getting my vote for his attempts at preserving our constitution.  

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Ricalloo,
I only said I liked him. LOL I never said I supported him at all. His idealism is great. He hands people on all sides exactly what they want to hear. The man is, let's face it, a BORN politician. He can play both sides of the fence, swim through a river of shit, and still come out clean on the other end. He plays into everyone's expectations. If, for no other reason, I like him because he plays the game well. Now, do I support him? Absolutely not. But I think he would give anyone running against him one helluva race to the finish!  

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in response to str8_murder's response to sesshoumaruaddict, i have this to say… if sesshomaruaddict sounds like a parrot of the liberal media, you, my friend, parrot foxnews. iraq may not entirely be a war for oil, but the war is imperialist, and is making both the families of george w. bush and osama bin laden rich beyond belief. all war is about profit. if there weren't profit in going to war, i guarantee you it would never be declared. believe me, i completely understand that some people don't want to believe that a leader would send his fellow countrymen to their deaths overseas for something as meaningless as money, but naivete can only go so far. i happen to believe that things like wars and terrorist attacks are planned by the people who run the entire world, and are carried out by slaves like us. anyone can bring up 9-11 to justify the wars in iraq or afghanistan, but once you think about the fact that osama as well as 15 of the 19 hijackers were all saudis, it doesn't make as much sense, does it? truth is, the war in afghanistan had less to do with terrorism, and more to do with the heroin that the cia has been trafficking to american children since the 1950s.
another thing, this administration has been provably responsible for the worst of attacks on our constitution and civil liberties, yet anyone who makes the bush/hitler comparison in the media is subject to hostility. now, of course bush is a puppet, but behind him there is someone diabolical pulling the strings. it's possible that it was even the same with hitler. but if you study hitler's early reign and compare it with the past 7 years, you're sure to find some striking similarities. step by step, into fascism. oh, on a related note, hitler was funded in part by gw's grandfather, prescott… why doesn't this stuff make the news, i wonder???
well i ventured away from the point i was to make… our rights are not being taken away, as you say, because the government is giving handouts to the greedy poor. our loss of rights is directly connected to september 11, 2001, just as nazi germany's loss of rights was directly connected to the burning of the reichstag. to a ruling class of elite (who control both parties– liberal and conservative– all in it together) the ends (global fascism) justify the means (war and terrorism.)
i also tend to disagree with the welfare state, but i don't agree that those unfortunate enough to have to depend on it are "greedy." when i think of greed, i think of people like paris hilton, living in fabulous excess, flaunting their riches and gawdy lifestyle like we should all be amazed and throw more money and attention at them. most people on government assistance are embarrassed by it. you see, the problem with government assistance programs is that it first demands that the recipient remain unemployed, or else only work part time, in order to maintain the level of income the government allots them. while it appears to be helping the person in question, what it is actually doing is making that person dependent on the so-called handout instead of giving them a boost towards independence. most people will just stay on welfare or other assistance programs because the jobs they can find don't offer a liveable wage. all of this of course ties in to corporate labor outsourcing, which is ruining lives in "third world" nations across the globe.

i make this point because the division of the masses into political camps like "liberal" and "conservative" is essential to controlling us. the best way to keep slaves is to make them think they're free, make believe they have a choice. once you clear the smokescreen from the air, you'll find that "liberal," "conservative," "democrat," and "republican" all come down to the exact same thing. why? it's because the so-called president is only a frontman for the same forces that have ruled us for centuries… probably even millenia.
consider this:
some girl you never met and probably never will in some town you've never heard of in some state you've never been to has an abortion. why do you care? is it the reckless loss of life? no, that couldn't be it. american soldiers are dying overseas, and not only that… they're dropping bombs on innocent women and children and that doesn't affect you. so what is it? is it because this is an american child who deserves the right to be born and raised in the "greatest nation in the world?" well, there are tons of kids in this so-called great nation's foster care system who are being abused and mistreated in ways you could never imagine; so who's fighting for them? maybe you care because someone told you you should. funny, that compassionate soul never gave a second thought to the scores of american children left to rot as wards of the state, but he must be good. he wants to make sure this child lives to join their ranks!

but, of course, this guy's motivation has nothing to do with the woman, the embryo, or the doctor. this guy thinks that if he can make you care, he can get your vote. more than that, his friend knows that if he convinces a bunch of people to care equally about the woman's right to choose, you'll fight about it for ages, and maybe you won't notice when they slip some legislative nightmare like nafta or the patriot act through congress.

its funny… your reasons for not supporting ron paul are my reasons to vote for him. i don't like government secrecy… not in a democracy supposedly "for the people, by the people." that phrase means the people have a say in everything. by the way, the legalization of all drugs would diminish virtually all drug related crime and free up our jail cells for the murderers, rapists, and pedophiles that have been parolled after serving 2-3 years of their sentences. if the legalized drugs were handled as they are in amsterdam, we would surely see a decrease in violent crime altogether. you see, freedom is personal choice… something we're sufficiently lacking in these turbulent times. if i want to marry another woman, that'd be my choice and doesn't affect you in any way. i should be able to do what i want and to hell with your opinions on how i should live my life. same goes if i wanted to be a dirtbag and shoot up dope. whatever… the only person you should try to control is yourself.

why do we try to control other people? our minds have been conditioned to it since the day we were born. because we are being controlled. we are slaves. slaves to the dollar, to technology, to the subliminal trances induced when we stare into the television. accept it or not, know it or not, we are slaves, and everything we do in this society only empowers our captors more.

haven't you ever felt it, working for one corporation or the other, something heavy like chains, fastening you to your lot in life? or the claustrophobia of the walls surrounding you? we live to make someone else prosper. we are trapped in this reality that consists of work and work and work and we don't really gain anything… no true freedom, no spiritual insight, no truth, no wisdom; only this. imprisoned in for walls, with a glowing box to hypnotize and pacify us… pharmaceuticals to control the minds of our kids when they can't put up with the prison we send them to for conditioning.

sorry about the rant but who in the world is gonna save us?  

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"Islamic radicalism" im sorry wouldn't it matter to you if a christian blew up a building because america had done something that ended badly for them, this isn't aimed at all of you and im sorry if it cause offence but thats casual raseisum and if you really think that because some nutjobs cliamed to be on a holly quest while blowing up a building justifies going to someone else country and killing a whole lot of people ur stupider than i thought (i'd like 2 point out here that its the same attitude on both sides ) it makes me sick im not american so i don't have a oppinion on your electoral candidates but anybody that takes focus away from killing every thing that moves to maintaining peace where you have the right and responcibility to is okay in my books

ps im sorry if this gets at you but its true if you lable a religion (even a small section of it ) then ur being raseist and thats just not on  

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dahm my > < tags got taken out they where examples

ps sorry again to the majority of you that this comment will undoubtedly anoy but whom its not aimed at  

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Just few days ago I watched documentary about Ku Klux Klan. It was about baptist priest , leader of the clan, who's been charged for murder ordered 40 years ago.
If we turn the table we can call this illustration of Christian Fundamentalism. It doesn't even mean that most baptist support KKK. It's not in the nature of the Christian religion to inspire hatred, but this have never stopped some people from using religion to stronger their agenda.

About Ron Paul. I also come to like him. I especially enjoyed a snipped in the daily show, where in pre-election debate all (republican) presidential candidates were asked if the president can start a war without the approval of the Congress. Paul was the last to speak and the only one who said "No, absolutely not. The constitution forbids it". I think at that moment all other (republican) candidates lost credibility.  

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Starks, can you edit my above post, the tag worked, but not in the way i wanted. delete this one after that. I would really like if you put at least preview button.  

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Hah, I would rather vote for a real candidate, like Stephen Colbert.  

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Couple of replies real quick. It won't matter much because nobody here will probably change anybody else's opinions… but I digress.

Gingerbell,

No offense but you conspiracy theory is crazy. I will agree on this though; the media sets the agenda, the politicians react to the agenda, we have little say at all. However I don't believe in some big all powerful organization controlling everything. We can vote and choose which stations we watch or which newspapers we read. It's just our voices are minuscule.

Snow,

Your comparison of the KKK to Islamic Terrorism is outrageous. Yes both are maniacal and heinous. The difference is this:

The KKK is prosecuted and punished within the United States for its crimes. They don't go to other countries to kill people. The problem persists within US borders and is not supported by the US government.

Islamic Terrorists kill people in many countries. They are well supported by many of the rogue governments (aka Iraq/Iran) in as much as they are financially sustained.

One is a domestic problem, the other is an international problem. A little oversight on your behalf. If the KKK flew some planes into some buildings in Moscow killing 3,000 civilians and this was paid for or even supported by the US government I couldn't fault the USSR (which no longer exists by the way) for declaring war.

Back on topic, Ron Paul is a long shot. Maybe he will make some surprising rising when the primaries start next year though.  

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Ricalloo, you haven't watched the documentary I recommended you, have you? I'm sure you don't even intend to.

I'm well aware USSR is no more, that's why I used it as example.
I'm aware of the differences between KKK and the talibans. I wanted to point the similarities. Obviously, trees are blocking the view to the forest.

Islamic radicalism is not the reason for the terrorism. It is the other way around.
Terrorist are born by misery and war. You can't eliminate them by bringing more misery and war.
There will always be bad people who do bad things, but this doesn't give you excuse to do whatever you want.  

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This amazes me. How such controversy can come from one person stating that they like a particular politician. Why does everyone feel the need to put down someone's views? It's their feelings and you stating things that you dislike about them doesn't mean that they are going to change. I find that this is the reasoning that young people in America don't vote as much anymore. As soon as they state something about their political beliefs, they are shot down. This shows just how much politics divide people nowadays.  

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ricalloo…

i'm not even claiming that there is one organization that controls it all… just that it's all controlled. i think it's probably human nature to give away your power and leave the problems for someone else to deal with. i just feel that the nature of society makes it impossible for us all to relate to one another on a human level, because our brains are programmed with whatever religious or cultural ehtnocentrities our parents have been fed throughout the generational cycle… and i don't think that bigotry just manifested itself in one generation or the other. i think it was purposely programmed into us by someone with an agenda of divide and conquer. i also don't feel pleased at all with the nature of the society in which we live. i think it imposes too many limitations on our true potential. i believe we could do well without heirarchy; it's just a matter of trusting in ourselves enough to take back our own power and use it for our own collective benefit. however, it is not something that can happen on an individual level… it needs to happen on a massive scale, or else it will never happen.

we can talk about politics forever, but in the end, this is still a one party state. i often wonder why people get so emotional when discussing politics. why are we so often told not to discuss religion or politics? in truth, i often find these two the only topics worth discussion, but the instinctive defensiveness you get from a lot of people when it comes to these subjects often shuts a conversation down somewhere short of enlightenment. why can't we accept that other people have different thoughts and opinions? why must we continually try to force our will on others?

this is my point: where the world as a collective being is constantly bending the will of individuals, we will never be free. the only way to end is for each and every person in the world to consciously stop it. there doesn't need to be a tyrant if most of a society thinks a certain way and imposes their ideas on others. society itself becomes the tyrant.

quite an interesting political discussion on a manga bulletin board, btw.  

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